Introduction
Hi everyone.
I play Don’t Starve for long now, and since I love the cooking mechanics and to how to bring the best out of available resources, I played Warly quite a lot. I have a 250 days solo world where I both constructed a base (a huge one with efficient industry to produce his rare ingredients) and explored the surface and caves, I played many early games to optimize this part, and I played a little bit as Warly support with friends (but not that much, since they are not experienced enough to provide me the heavy infrastructure I need).
But I feel like I’m not enjoying the character as much as I could if his core idea (cook → you can and have to diversify your menu) would have been implemented better. So I present you this rebalance proposition :
→ I tried to reach the best detailed / concise compromise. If some points are not clear, feel free to ask.
→ I wrote this from my personal experience, and all the relevant online sources (video, posts) I could find, but my knowledge is definitely incomplete. If you think I over/underestimate some points, please tell me and let’s improve the proposition :).
Current state analysis
If you never fully played Warly, please do not underestimate the amount of time and organisation needed to reach his full potential, Warly tries with console give a very distorted view of the character.
To evaluate the real character strength, we need to take in account the time needed to build and exploit all the infrastructure required the supply him properly (selective farms and goat farm mainly) while coping with a character not suited for day-to-day adventure. And introduce the concept of opportunity cost : with all that time consumed, could have had comparable results with another character ? The answer is often yes : Warly can become a monster in late game within a group of experienced players, but for most of Don’t starve Together players it’s just simpler to go for an existing solution (mass armour + pierogi for boss fights, clothes for temperature/wetness etc.) than a Warly set up.
At some point that, far from the “Warly is the most broken character even” reactions when he arrived in Don’t starve Together, he’s now considered as a overall weak character. Extremely strong in good hand in proper situations, but most of the time a character liked because he offers a more challenging survival experience, forces to explore the cooking recipes, or even a troll pick ^^
What comes in mind first when I think about Warly are his flaws : his inability to eat anything aside crock pot (especially mushrooms, cooked vegetables or jerky), his higher hunger drain (+20%) and the penalties when you eat the same food twice in less than 2 days (2 days =180 hunger for Warly) .
1/ His inability to eat uncooked food is a balanced inconvenient for his powers (you have more options with your special dishes, but less from raw food).
2/ But the present “do not eat the same food” mechanic feels unbalanced, at all stages of the game. In early game, we often rely on veggies (berries, butterflies, carrots) or small and few meats, that gives us low-hunger dishes : we need 5-6 different dishes to fill a complete 180 hunger cycle (more like 200 if we don’t time perfectly) → quite hard and takes many inventory slots. In fact, the easy solution is always to aim for high-hunger dishes : meaty stew, meat balls etc. and make Warly a butcher rushing for meat, even if he’s not presented as a warrior and his kit relies mostly on vegetables…
In late game, he hunger is no longer a problem but it’s his inability to heal properly for boss fights : even with 2/3 different healing dishes, you soon hit the high-penalty on your food value…
And every time, going in expedition in Warly feels like camping with a princess : you a to plan so many things to keep a high standard of living (food variety) while exploring / fighting / gathering resources...
3/ His higher hunger drain sounds just unnecessary : you get a penalty even if you respect the varied food rule… Argh !
On the other side, his abilities are (when you get the sufficient infrastructure to provide him the quite rare ingredient he needs) erratic, varying from useless/quite situational to beyond broken ^^
→ The Volt goat chaud-froid gives you the equivalent of an extra player dealing damages every 2 players (but the goat farm is quite long the relocate and inefficient), and chilli and garlic spices are huge (once you have the selective farms needed). All 3 combined gives you a character with 1,8x given (almost Wolfgang !) and 0,66 taken (log suit almost becomes thulecite armour) damage, so a 2,7 times stronger character. That’s ridiculous...
→ The moqueca is very strong (when you have an onion farm) and glow berry mousse quite convenient for caves
→ All others seem are – in my opinion - situational, not convenient or totally useless
The general picture looks like an unbalanced character : Warly creates absolute monsters in combat, but his abilities for day-to-day help for the team in different situations are not very good. It’s a shame because the opposite would may be what Warly players want to provide to their team...
(NB : let’s keep in mind that the future update “Reap what you sow” will considerably increase the selective farming yields, providing to Warly an easier access to his rare vegetables (pepper, garlic, onions) and therefore his already strong recipes/spices)
In few words : if you have a very efficient group of friends that can build you a productive industry, you can turn them into ultimate warriors. But in other situations (average players, solo), Warly does not offers that much to his team, and his personal game is dominated by his flaws. Playing Warly feels like more difficult than an average character : you’re happy to help your friends, but your personal experience is like a Wes “hardcore surviving” satisfaction…
Goal
I would love to play an overall easier day-to-day Warly :
→ Easier to understand his flaws and powers
→ Easier early game for inexperienced players
→ Balanced flaws, to force you to really diversify your dishes (not get screwed by many low-hunger dishes and go for the easy meaty combo…)
And the counterpart would be overall weaker powers :
→ Greatly reduced combat boosts
→ A kit more utility oriented
This would lead to a more accessible character (we don’t see much Warly in games, an august 2020 survey ranked him as the 5th least used character, only the 3 pay-characters and Wes are more scarce...) and useful in the daily game (not just for boss fights).
Flaws
1/ His obligation to eat only crock pot dishes seems balanced and interesting to me : less options from raw food kind of forces you to explore his exclusive recipes.
→ No change in crock pot dish obligation
2/ The dish variety obligation is also a pertinent idea, but its hunger (180) counter is questionable : forces you to switch between 5-6 dishes if low-hunger dishes, whereas only 2 dishes if high-hunger dishes… And prevents you in any way to spam food in boss fights…
A dish counter would be far better in my opinion : the game remembers the last X (3 for example) dishes you ate, to force you to switch between a fix number of dish (3+1=4 here) to stay at 100% efficiency.
→ - 0% if the dish eaten was present 0 time in the last X dishes (1x time food required to fill the stomach)
→ - 25% if the dish eaten was present 1 time in the last X dishes (1,33x time food required to fill the stomach)
→ - 50% if the dish eaten was present 2 times in the last X dishes (2x times food required to fill the stomach
→ - 75% if the dish eaten was present 3 times in the last X dishes (4x times food required to fill the stomach)
→ - 100% if the dish eaten was present 4 times in the last X dishes (unable to fill the stomach)
The dish variety is quite hard to cope with in early game (as we have access to a limited number of ingredients) and way easier in late game (except for specific situations like intensive healing etc.). Maybe a incremental dish memory would be the best solution ?
→ last 2 dishes in early game (1st autumn-winter, days 1-35) for a 3+ dishes diet
→ last 3 dishes in mid game (1st spring-summer, days 36-70) for a 4 +dishes diet
→ last 4 dishes in late game (from 2nd yer, days >70) for a 5+ dishes diet
This mechanism allows the Warly player to survive more easily in early game (switching between 3 meals among butterfly muffins, jam, ratatouille, meatballs etc.), would more challenging in late game (5 different meals required for a 100% efficiency !) and allow him to heal quite efficiently in boss fights (“only” 4 or 5 different healing dishes are needed, among the 6-7 really accessible now in the game).
The last X dishes eaten by Warly could be either shown next to the hunger meter, or not (for a more “survival” experience).
→ dish variety mechanics modified (2-3-4 last dishes, -0%/-25%/-50%/-75%/-100% penalties)
2/ The dish variety obligation is also a pertinent idea, but its hunger (180) counter is questionable : forces you to switch between 5-6 dishes if low-hunger dishes, whereas only 2 dishes if high-hunger dishes… And prevents you in any way to spam food in boss fights…
A dish counter would be far better in my opinion : the game remembers the last X (3 for example) dishes you ate, to force you to switch between a fix number of dish (3+1=4 here) to stay at 100% efficiency. The last 3 dishes seems a good compromise for me, with the following penalties :
→ - 0% if the dish eaten was present 0 time in the last 3 dishes (1x time food required to fill the stomach with 4 dishes or more)
→ - 25% if the dish eaten was present 1 time in the last 3 dishes (1,33x time food required to fill the stomach with only 2-3 dishes)
→ - 50% if the dish eaten was present 2 times in the last 3 dishes (2x times food required to fill the stomach with only 2 dishes)
→ - 75% if the dish eaten was present 3 times in the last 3 dishes (4x times food required to fill the stomach with only 1 dish)
The mechanism allows the Warly player to survive more easily in early game (switching from butterfly muffins, jam, ratatouille etc.) and to heal quite efficiently in boss fights (“only” 3 or 4 different healing dishes are needed, among the 6-7 really accessible now in the game).
The last 3 dishes eaten by Warly could be either shown next to the hunger meter, or not (for a more “survival” experience).
→ dish variety mechanics modified (3 last dishes, -25%/-50%/-75% penalties)
3/ As I previously said, his higher hunger drain sounds totally unnecessary.
→ Normal hunger drain
Generic powers
His huge (250) belly is, in my opinion, unnecessary (even more if his hunger drain is removed). A little bit higher-than-average belly (200) would be enough, and be compensated by lower-than-average sanity (150) to get the default total of basic stats.
→ 150 health, 200 hunger, 150 sanity
His ability to fire-cook faster than usual feels unnecessary, even more for a character who doesn’t eat fire-cooked food…
→ Fast fire-cook removed
About his exclusive items : the portable crock pot is obviously mandatory for his gameplay and the chef pouch is a fine addition considering his “obligation” to carry many different ingredients. However, it’s often not really worth it to build several portable crock pots in a base (+25% cooking speed is weak compared to the “only Warly use” restriction...) → I would upgrade the cooking speed to +50%.
The crafting material are not great too : a little bit too common / cheap for good items like this.
→ Portable crock pot : 2 marbles instead of 2 gold (gold is already used for everything…)
→ Chef pouch : 2 bunny puffs instead of 2 nitre ? (to incite players to explore caves a little bit more)
→ Portable crock pot (speed +50%) and chef pouch crafting lightly modified
The starting items could be improved too. The starting food is unnecessary (potato) or a even a waste (garlic). The portable crock pot is obviously mandatory, a chef pouch would be great to give him an easier early game for beginners (and necessary if its crafting is harder !)
→ Warly starts with portable crock pot and chef pouch (but no food)
Spices
The spices mechanic seems overcomplicated to me : first create the spice (from a mono-ingredient), and then season. Why not just season from the raw garlic/chilli etc. ? It currently feels like washing then peeling my apple… Moreover, that gives these precious spices an unnecessary infinite spoiling time.
Talking about spoiling time, it’s not that hard to get around the mandatory presence of Warly to season dishes by seasoning powder cakes. That way, you can prepare a load of ready-to-use spices, and even change character and use many spices without even having a Warly in the game…
In fact, the only broken fight bonus that can’t easily be prepared in advance is the volt goat chaud-froid because it’s… a crock pot dish and not a spice ! Why not do the same for the spices, replace them by special crock pot dishes exclusive to Warly ? 3 of the 4 spices (garlic, chilli, honey) already work as a meal (they give a specific boost independent to the meal they have been added on), and the salt spice is just a weaker duplicate of the garlic spice (one garlic spice decreases the damaged received by 33%, and that’s equivalent to increase the efficiency of every heal by 50%. Why waste your time in salt seasoning every healing dish for an awful +25% ?) and could/should be reworked…
The Warly gameplay would be way more straightforward (just a portable crock pot with new recipes) and subject to less abuses if we just removed the seasoning mechanic and replaces the 4 existing spices by their equivalent in special dishes :).
→ Spices removed, replaced by special dishes
(Note than it could still be possible to mass-produce Warly dishes, bundling wrap them and change character, but this abuse looks inherent to the bundling wrap mechanic and is anyway inaccessible early-mid game for a large majority of players)
Special dishes
I will first talk about the “utilitarian” dishes (hunger/heal/sanity and convenient mechanics) and generally buff them, and deal with the “fight” dishes (goat chaud-froid and spices) for a general nerf on a second time.
1/ Moqueca : it’s a round meal, a little bit expensive (onion) but very useful ! The future farming update will probably yield onions more easily, so a little nerf on Moqueca could be necessary ? → Moqueca : Only +90 hunger.
2/ Bone bouillon : sounds good but since the bones are not very renewable (except with deer) I don’t use it often… Maybe just 1 bone shard for an entirely hunger-focused dish (for extreme situations) would be effectively used in some situations ? → Bone bouillon : 1 bone + 1 onion for +150 hunger and -10 sanity.
3/ Monster tartare : as the bird feeding (monster meet → egg) is an extremely efficient mechanic to transform toxic food into edible food, the monster lasagna will stay a very poor choice compared to meatballs. The present monster tartare is not better enough (+67% hunger) to change this state, an amelioration could maybe make it at least situational and even good for Webber ? → Monster tartare : requires 4 monster food, +90 hunger (and -20 health/sanity)
4/ Puffed potato souffle : the potato usefulness (cooked, or with fancy tubers) gives little margin to do a significantly better but not broken meal. It think this dish is unnecessary → Puffed potato souffle : deleted
5/ Fresh fruit crepes : butter is already extremely situational ingredient that has 2 good recipes, it’s completely useless to add one… → Fresh fruit crepes : deleted. (And new favourite dish for Wes : Ice cream ?)
6/ Grim galette : I heard that this meal could lead to broken combos in late game with experienced players, but honestly I didn’t looked further (and for these players nightmare fuel is a non-issue anyway…), In my opinion it’s an expensive meal (nightmare fuel x2 + onion) for a moderately experienced group of players, only useful for characters that have very asymmetric health/sanity gains : Wormwood and Wortox. A cheaper recipe could lead me to use it on a more regular basis for these characters. → Grim galette : only 1 nightmare fuel and 1 vegetable needed.
7/ Fish cordon bleu : the recipe and the effect are fine and fun, only the duration (5 minutes = 0,6 day) is a problem. It’s both too short (we need a crazy amount of ingredients to rely on this meal for an expedition) and not understandable for players. Fish cordon bleu → 1 day duration
8/ Asparagazpacho : same problem, same solution. Asparagacho → 1 day duration
9/ Dragon salad : the effect is nice (even though coping with cold is easier than dealing with overheat and wetness) but the recipe has a major flaw : its chili makes this dish in competition with the (highly more profitable) chili spice, and the dragon fruit is also very valuable… Since the effect is not that great, maybe just 2 pomegranate (that as no dedicated recipe !) could replace the chili and dragon fruit, and 2 berries (for a full-red salad) ? And the duration problem is the same as previously… → Red salad : 2 pomegranate, 2 berries for a 1 day duration.
10/ Glow berry mousse : the effect is really nice, allowing to explore the cave with a Tam o’shanter (no sanity problem at all !) and free hands, but the decreasing light radius is quite annoying… Maybe remove the health/sanity bonus and reduce the hunger one in exchange of a constant (slightly lower than current max ?) light radius ? → Glow berry mousse : 0 health / 15 hunger / 0 sanity, constant light radius.
11/ Volt goat chaud-froid : it will seem a little bit drastic, but this dish should be deleted in my opinion. For two reasons : first, it’s this dish which allows to reach some crazy damage output due to the electricity modifier (1,5-2,5) and make Warly armies broken. And even with a damage reduction (for example : electricity damage but -20% base damage, for a 0,8x1,5 = 1,2 final multiplicative) the dish would stay unbalanced. Indeed – second reason – it’s main ingredient (the volt goat horn) is very rare and not meant to be intensely farmed : the goat relocation is a pain and sounds against the “game will”, and is already used by very good items (weather pain) or item that could get an upgrade (morning star). In short : this dish incite Warly to create a very unnatural and time-consuming goat farm for a broken effect. All what we want avoid (huge investment / downside for incredible gain) for a more balanced/chill character… → Volt goat chaud-froid : deleted
12/ Garlic : 33% damage reduction looks bit too much (it’s equivalent to give +50% HP and heal to a character !), especially if we tend to make Warly a less fight-oriented support ! -20% should be enough, for 1 day, for 2 garlic and common fillers (here vegetables) to do a crock pot dish → Roasted vegetables : 2 garlics + 1 vegetable value, 20% damage reduction for 1 day
13/ Chili flakes : the mirror damage buff is 1/(1-0,2)=1,25, so +25% damage output for a dish exactly as strong as the garlic one. Same frame for the dish→ Spicy ribs : 2 chillis + 1 meat value, +25% damage output for 1 day.
→ Note 1 on fight meals : a chili-garlic buffed character would now be (1+0,25)/(1-0,8)=1,56 times stronger than normal. That’s good but far more moderate than the previous volt-chili-garlic buff that leaded to a 2,7 times stronger character !
→ Note 2 on fight meals : how will apply the modifiers ?
A/ Presently the chili is multiplicative (Wolfgang gets 2x1,2=2,4 damage) and garlic additive (Wigfrid takes 1-0,25-0,33=0,42 damage), that is the worst to do : spices are more efficient on already stronger characters, and tend to give everything to one “champion”…
B/ A more reasonable formula would be to set the chili additive (Wolfgang gets 2+0,25=2,25 instead of 2,5 and Wilson gets 1+0,25=1,25 and Wendy 0,75+0,25=1) and garlic multiplicative (Wigfrid takes (1-0,25)(1-0,2)=0,6 instead of 0,55) to have an equal “spice” efficiency on every character.
C/ A more drastic use would be to set a cap limit : chili gives you min(base+0,25 , max(base, 1,25)) so 0,75+0,25=1 for Wendy, 1+0,25=1,25 for Wilson, 1,25 for Wigfrid and 2 for Wolfgang (stronger characters unbuffed). Same idea for garlic that gives you min(1-base,1-0,2) so 0,8 for every character except Wigfrid that gets 0,75. It’s a comparative nerf for fight characters but it works as if they were already “on spice” and now Warly allows other characters to reach some Wigfrid-stats for a period of time.
What do you prefer ? The present A formula is bad in my opinion, I prefer the B or C solutions.
14/ Honey : this spice is nice, let’s just transform it in dish : → Glazed fruits : 2 honeys + 1 fruit value, x2 chop/mine/hammer for 1 day
15/ Salt : as I previously said, the healing mechanic is redundant with the damage reduction. A speed boost would complete way better the buff kit. I personally don’t farm salt a lot (just a little bit to get few Salt boxes, I don’t often get salt “mines” close to my base) and I don’t know if salt intensive farming is a thing or not, so the balance of this dish could be wrong…→ Salted cod : +2 salt crystals + 1 fish value, +10% or +15% speed boost for 1 day
→ Note : Wigfrid can’t eat the garlic (vegetarian) dish but she already has a damage reduction so maybe that’s a good thing for the game balance ? Wurt can’t eat the salt dish but she already has a speed boost so that’s fine, and the chili dish so no bonus damage for her (she has higher stats and her Merms so why not). Anyway, it’s quite hard to find dishes for both Wurt and Wigfrid, the present result looks fair enough.
Summary
Let’s recap here what the future Warly would look like :
Max stats : 150 health / 200 hunger / 150 sanity
Flaws :
→ Can only eat crock pot dishes
→ -25% dish effect for each occurrence of this dish in the last 2 (day 1-35) – 3 (day 36-70) – 4 (day 71+) dishes eaten. + Visual reminder ?
Powers :
→ 2 special items : Portable crock pot (+50% cook speed, 2 marbles / 6 coals / 6 twigs) and Chef pouch (2 bunny puffs, 4 grass, 4 twigs)
→ Starting items : Portable crock pot and Chef pouch (no food !)
→ 12 Special dishes (only cookable in Portable crock pot)
- Moqueca : 0,5 fish + 1 tomato + 1 onion = +60 health / +90 hunger / +33 sanity
- Bone bouillon : 1 bone shard + 1 onion = +0 health / +150 hunger / -10 sanity
- Monster tartare : 4 monster meats = -20 health / +90 hunger / -20 sanity
- Grim galette : 1 nightmare fuel + 1 vegetable = +1 health / +25 hunger / +5 sanity, swaps health and sanity values
- Fish cordon bleu : 2 frog legs + 1 fish = +20 health / +37,5 hunger / -10 sanity, wetness immunity for 1 day
- Asparagazpacho : 2 asparagus + 2 ices = +3 health / +25 hunger / +10 sanity, -40°C for 1 day
- Red salad : 2 pomegranates + 2 berries = -3 health / 25 hunger / +10 sanity, +40°C for 1 day
- Glow berry mousse : 1 glow berry + 1 fruit = +0 health / +15 hunger / +0 sanity, light emission (constant) for 2 days
- Glazed fruits : 2 honeys + 1 fruit = -5 health / +15 hunger / +10 sanity, x2 chopping-mining-hammering efficiency for 1 day
- Salted cod : 2 salt crystals + 1 fish = +15 health / +37,5 hunger / +0 sanity, +10-15% speed boost for 1 day
- Roasted vegetables : 2 garlics + 1 vegetable = +15 health / +25 hunger / +0 sanity, 20% damage reduction for 1 day
- Spicy ribs : 2 chilis + 1 meat = +3 health / 37,5 hunger / +10 sanity, +25% damage output for 1 day
What next ?
I first want to thank you if you read the whole post up there ^^.
The first step now would be to share our experiences and point of view to enrich and polish this Warly rebalance.
My general guideline was to offer a simpler (in comprehension and set up) character who would not be able to absurdly boost an army like now, but rather offer his team a wide range of services. A still above-average characters in terms of difficulty, but not completely noob-forbidden, who compensates his flaws by a nice versatility.
Please stay constructive, keep in mind that console-test is not a faithful representation of a character, and if some points look to strong for you, remind yourself that Wolfgang / Wortox / Wickerbottom / Wigfrid exist...
The next step would be to concretely create this new Warly.
The best way would be to see Klei developers pass by around here, and hope that this rebalance proposition would – at least partially - inspire them.
The other way would be to find someone to create a Warly mod out of this. The diffusion among players would certainly be narrower, but it’s better than nothing and it would still allow to please some Warly lovers (like me !). If you already mod for Don’t starve together or are willing to, feel free to show yourself ! I personally never modded but I program in other languages and I heard that the mod language is quite simple, so if all else fails I could try to take charge of this.